Segments
where deposition_id = 8
96 records
| id ▼ | deposition_id | segment_index | speaker | start_seconds | end_seconds | text |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 8879 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 0 | Page 1 | COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. INTERVIEW OF: HOWARD LUTNICK Wednesday, May 6, 2026 Washington, D.C. The interview in the above matter was held in 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 11:03 a.m. Present: Representatives Comer, Timmons, Ansari, Subramanyam, Khanna, and Walkinshaw. | ||
| 8880 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 1 | Page 2 | Appearances: For the COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM: DANIEL ASHWORTH, GENERAL COUNSEL BRITTANY BRIGNAC, SENIOR COUNSEL HANNAH CATHEY, PROFESSIONAL STAFF MEMBER JESSICA COLLINS, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR JACK EMMER, CHIEF COUNSEL FOR INVESTIGATIONS EMILY FEYERABEND, COUNSEL BILLY GRANT, DEPUTY CHIEF COUNSEL FOR INVESTIGATIONS WILL HARNICE, PROFESSIONAL STAFF MEMBER MARK MARIN, STAFF DIRECTOR PETER SPECTRE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR OVERSIGHT ELLISON TOLAN, COUNSEL ASHLEE VINYARD, DEPUTY STA… | ||
| 8881 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 2 | Page 3 | , MINORITY SENIOR COUNSEL , MINORITY LEGAL INTERN , MINORITY SENIOR COUNSEL , MINORITY FELLOW , MINORITY CHIEF COUNSEL For HOWARD LUTNICK: ZACHARY TERWILLIGER MIKE CROWLEY VINSON & ELKINS 2200 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Suite 500 West Washington, DC 20037 AUSTIN MAYRON, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE THOMAS BARNHORST, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE SECRETARY | ||
| 8882 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 3 | Page 4 | Mr. Emmer. We will go on the record. This is a transcribed interview of Secretary Howard W. Lutnick, conducted by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, under the authority granted to it pursuant to House Rule X. Accordingly, House Rule X grants the committee broad jurisdiction for the committee to conduct investigations of any matter at any time. This interview is requested by Chairman James Comer as part of the committee's investigation into the circumstances and subsequent in… | ||
| 8883 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 4 | Page 5 | Mr. Mayron. Austin Mayron, Department of Commerce. Mr. Emmer. Thank you. For the record, starting with the majority staff, can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title, and affiliation. Mr. Grant. Billy Grant, deputy chief counsel for investigations, Chairman Comer. Mr. Spectre. Peter Spectre, director of oversight for Chairman Comer. Ms. Tolan. Ellison Tolan, counsel, Chairman Comer. Ms. Cathey. Hannah Cathey, professional staff member, Chairman Comer. Ms.… | ||
| 8884 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 5 | Page 6 | Mr. Emmer. Thank you. We have Members of Congress present today. Starting with the Chairman, can the majority Members intro and then the minority Members. Chairman Comer. James Comer, Kentucky. Mr. Timmons. William Timmons, South Carolina. Mr. Emmer. Thank you. Secretary Lutnick, before we begin, I would like to go over the ground rules for this interview. The questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions for up to an hour, and then the minority will have an opportunity to … | ||
| 8885 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 6 | Page 7 | Minority exhibits will be identified alphabetically. Do you understand? Secretary Lutnick. I do. Mr. Emmer. We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible. So we will take our time. If you have any questions or do not fully understand the question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify, add context to, or rephrase our questions. If we ask about specific conversations or events in the past and you are unable to recall the exact words or details, you… | ||
| 8886 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 7 | Page 8 | Mr. Emmer. Furthermore, you cannot tell half-truths or exclude information necessary to make statements accurate. You are required to provide all information that would make your response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute a false statement. Do you understand? Secretary Lutnick. I do. Mr. Emmer. Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful testimony in today's interview? Secretary Lutnick. No. Mr. Emmer. Please note that, if you wish to assert a privi… | ||
| 8887 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 8 | Page 9 | Mr. Emmer. Do you have an opening statement that you would like to read? Secretary Lutnick. I do. Mr. Emmer. You may proceed. Secretary Lutnick. Chairman Comer, members of the committee, and committee staff, I unequivocally condemn the conduct attributed to Jeffrey Epstein and everyone who participated in his illegal activities. The survivors of his crimes deserve our respect and support. I voluntarily agreed to appear and answer questions in connection with this committee's investigation. I wou… | ||
| 8888 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 9 | Page 10 | office, suggesting he had a reason to get in touch with me. Our offices attempted to connect us by phone over the course of several weeks but were unable to do so. Ultimately, to the best of my recollection, his staff indicated he would be in his residence on a particular weekend afternoon. And my staff arranged for me to ring his bell, during my and my wife's typical Sunday walk around the block with our dogs, to hear what he had to say. My best recollection is: I rang the bell, sat in his foye… | ||
| 8889 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 10 | Page 11 | I had no personal or professional relationship with this individual, despite the proximity of our addresses. Further, at no time during these limited interactions did I witness any conduct, let alone the type of illegal conduct of which we have since become aware. In closing, after our first interaction, my wife and I discussed that I would not establish a personal nor professional relationship with that individual. On a podcast in October 2025, I informally recounted that conversation. What I s… | ||
| 8890 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 11 | Page 12 | the administration. Q Thank you. And, again, we appreciate your public service and agreeing to testify voluntarily. Let's talk about your contact with Epstein, and we appreciate the personal -- or the statement that you made. But let's start from the beginning. When did you first meet Jeffrey Epstein? A I first met Jeffrey Epstein when his staff knocked on our door and invited my wife and I to come next door for coffee to -- he lived in the townhouse adjacent to ours. And then, sometime later, m… | ||
| 8891 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 12 | Page 13 | A A short -- reasonably short amount of time, maybe 10 or 15 minutes. And then he offered us a tour of his house. Q And I recognize that you touched on this in your opening statement, but, again, when did you purchase the property? A So I purchased my property in 1997, and then -- but it was an unfinished property, meaning, the residents were pigeons and mice. I mean, literally unfinished. I mean pigeons flying around. So it required extensive building. I wouldn't even say renovations. It didn't… | ||
| 8892 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 13 | Page 14 | So you have this coffee. What happened next? A Or he -- he offered, "Would you like a tour of the house," and we said, "Sure." And then we had a tour, and we went across the hall where, you know -- across from the living room is generally the dining room -- and he opened the door, and there was a massage table. And I saw his massage table, and that ended the tour. Q So you did not see the rest of the house? One room is what you're saying? A One room. That's my recollection. Mr. Spectre. Secretar… | ||
| 8893 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 14 | Page 15 | Q And, at this point, did you ask to end the tour, or you just said, "We're going to leave"? A I don't remember precisely what we said, but we basically excused ourselves and departed. Q Did your wife ask Mr. Epstein any questions related to the massage table? A I don't recall her speaking, no. Q So, on the podcast, you said, after seeing the massage table in Mr. Epstein's house and the six, eight steps it took for you and your wife to get back to your house, you decide, and I'm quoting, "that I… | ||
| 8894 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 15 | Page 16 | A No. And I would've noticed them, so, no. Q So I want to talk more about your appearance on the Pod Force One podcast and the statements that you made, but first, generally, how did this appearance come about? A I don't know offhand. I think my comms -- you know, it comes from your communications director, sets it up. I don't know. Q And the topic of Jeffrey Epstein was the first topic during this appearance. Did you know that you would be discussing Jeffrey Epstein when you agreed to go on thi… | ||
| 8895 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 16 | Page 17 | boundaries. So avoid him. That was the discussion I had with my wife, and I did avoid him. So it is true what I said. It wasn't that I couldn't be -- if he -- as the Members know, often people come up to you and, you know, say hello to you in a big crowd. I wasn't saying that couldn't occur. It didn't occur, but the point I was making is I would not have a personal and professional relationship with him. I would avoid it, and I did avoid it. Q Did you interact with Epstein after the initial inte… | ||
| 8896 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 17 | Page 18 | where you were pulling the statement from. Thank you. . We can't hear back here. Secretary Lutnick. I was just speculating for a podcast. I had no personal information. I was just speculating for a podcast. BY MR. EMMER: Q For the record, sir, did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform or represent to you that he was part of any intelligence service of any nation, including the United States? A No. Q So how would you characterize your relationship with Mr. Epstein? A I had no personal or professional relat… | ||
| 8897 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 18 | Page 19 | Q Did you ever visit Epstein's New Mexico ranch? A No. Q His Paris apartment? A No. Q Did you ever visit any other property owned or leased by Mr. Epstein? A No. Q Did Mr. Epstein ever invite you to any of his properties? A No. Q Did you ever fly on any of Mr. Epstein's private planes? A No. Mr. Spectre. And, just for clarity on the record, you had -- besides the two interactions you discussed at Epstein's New York home, did you ever visit that home at any other time when he was not present? Sec… | ||
| 8898 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 19 | Page 20 | A From the newspapers. Q Have you ever met Ghislaine Maxwell? A I met her once. Q Can you explain to the committee when you met her? A To the best of my recollection, I met her once. It was at a Rockefeller Institute fundraiser in New York City. Q And what were the nature of your conversations with Ms. Maxwell, to the best of your recollection? A Meaningless and inconsequential. Mr. Grant. Do you know roughly what year this meeting would've occurred? Secretary Lutnick. I don't. Mr. Spectre. Did … | ||
| 8899 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 20 | Page 21 | Were you ever notified -- by way of him being your neighbor -- were you ever notified about his status? Secretary Lutnick. No. Mr. Spectre. Did you have children under the age of 18 at that -- during that time? Secretary Lutnick. Yes. BY MR. EMMER: Q And, to be clear, did you ever have reason to suspect Mr. Epstein was sexually abusing young women and girls? A No. Q Did anyone around you ever discuss Mr. Epstein and his arrest in Florida? A Not that I can remember, no. Q Secretary Lutnick, you t… | ||
| 8900 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 21 | Page 22 | Q So I'll read this into the record. This is an email from Tuesday, November 20th, of 2012, sent by Lesley Groff. The subject line reads "Jeffrey Epstein." The email reads, "Hello, Mr. Lutnick, Jeffrey Epstein understands you will be down in St. Thomas some over the holidays. Jeffrey requested I please pass along some phone numbers to you so the two of you can possibly get together. Any numbers you wanted to pass along to Jeffrey would be great as well." I will say, it appears that you were the … | ||
| 8901 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 22 | Page 23 | Q So, to be clear, you did not reach out, yourself, to tell Mr. Epstein that you were going to be in the U.S. Virgin Islands over Christmas. Is that right? A Yes. Q And -- A Yes, that is correct. I did not in any way contact or have any connection to him. Q And it would be safe to say that the invite surprised you? A I find it unsettling and inexplicable. Q Who else was involved in coordinating this trip to the island? A I have no recollection. So I can't give you more information. I just have n… | ||
| 8902 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 23 | Page 24 | Mr. Spectre. Did this friend and their family that was with you have any prior connection with Mr. Epstein, or were they there as your guests and for your visit to your neighbor? Secretary Lutnick. They were just there as my guests, but I don't know -- and I've never heard -- that they had any contact whatsoever with him. Mr. Spectre. Prior or subsequent to the visit? Secretary Lutnick. Prior or subsequent. Mr. Spectre. Thank you. BY MR. EMMER: Q Mr. Epstein didn't offer you a tour of the island… | ||
| 8903 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 24 | Page 25 | "pedophile island" -- nothing of that sort prior to or around the time that you visited? A No, of course not. In 2019, we all learned lots of information, but nothing before then. Q There is a photo that was released, I believe in the Epstein Files Transparency Act, and has been reported. Are you aware of a photo of you on the island? A Yes. Q And was that the -- or what you were describing of looking over the cliff? Would it be safe to assume that that's when the photo was taken? A Yes. It's en… | ||
| 8904 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 25 | Page 26 | these claims? A You've got to be kidding me. That is the most ridiculous and absurd thing I've ever heard. What, a bald man? I have hair. Look. I mean, I don't have many, but at least I have some. That is not remotely me. That's nonsense. Q Thank you. During your visit to the island, did you discuss the company AdFin Solutions with Mr. Epstein? A No. Q And what is AdFin Solutions? A It was a company that attempted to create an exchange for online ads. They went out of business. Q Were you person… | ||
| 8905 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 26 | Page 27 | Cantor Ventures would be CV. But it was a venture capital arm of Cantor Fitzgerald, so sort of multiple layers down the subsidiary chain. Q And the reason we ask is there was a stock purchase agreement that was released as part of the Epstein Files Transparency Act that you signed on behalf of CVAFH and Mr. Epstein signed. Did you know that Mr. Epstein was an investor in this company AdFin? A No. Q When did you learn that he was an investor? A To the best of my knowledge, when these documents we… | ||
| 8906 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 27 | Page 28 | page? Secretary Lutnick. No. I find it inexplicable and unsettling. Mr. Emmer. At this time, I'd like to introduce majority exhibit 3, and this is an email that you are not a recipient of, dated May 4th, 2013, from Jeffrey Epstein to David Mitchell, discussing AdFin and a potential meeting between you and Mr. Epstein. [Lutnick Majority Exhibit No. 3 was marked for identification.] BY MR. EMMER: Q Mr. Secretary, do you know who David Mitchell is? A Yes. Q How do you know him? A He was the husband… | ||
| 8907 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 28 | Page 29 | [Lutnick Majority Exhibit No. 4 was marked for identification.] Secretary Lutnick. Okay. BY MR. EMMER: Q We discussed your emails earlier, sir. Is this HWL email yours? A Yes. Q And the email chain begins with Mr. Epstein asking you, "What do you think the prospects for AdFin are?" Why would Mr. Epstein be emailing you directly about the prospects for AdFin? A I don't know. AdFin was a company that's objective was to become an exchange for internet ads. So it was pursuing companies that put out … | ||
| 8908 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 29 | Page 30 | A Oh. "Producing revenue finally. This is their year. Next 12 months they need to become economically self-sufficient." Q And Mr. Epstein replied to your email and said, "Thanks. How long until Sherry is ready, and can I buy my guesthouse?" To which you responded, "Probably 4 years," in parentheses, "Pierre." What is Pierre? A So he had made a joke that he would buy my house as his guesthouse because I had bought the top of the Pierre Hotel. It was an apartment. It still is -- a large, again, un… | ||
| 8909 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 30 | Page 31 | [12:04 p.m.] Mr. Spectre. You testified earlier about having one distinct four-part email exchange with Jeffrey Epstein ever. Is this that email chain? Secretary Lutnick. This is two of it. It may have been, like, disconnected. Sorry, I can't -- I'm holding my hands slightly separate. Sorry. Mr. Terwilliger. Mr. Emmer, on that point, I do think, for the sake of completeness, I would just proffer to the Committee that if it were to look at document EFT Alpha 01050718, you will see that there was … | ||
| 8910 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 31 | Page 32 | house. But I shouldn't speculate. I don't know. And I did not speak to him. Q Thank you. [Lutnick Majority Exhibit Nos. 6 and 7 were marked for identification.] BY MR. EMMER: Q At this time, I'd like to introduce what will be marked as majority exhibit 6 and 7. Majority exhibit 6 is an email dated Monday, April 4th, 2011, from Lesley Groff, Jeffrey Epstein's secretary, sent to Mr. Epstein, saying, "Howard Lutnick returned your call." And that is Bates numbered EFTA654552. Majority exhibit 7 is a… | ||
| 8911 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 32 | Page 33 | someone's house. I waited for him to come down. He told me what he had to say. And, remember, this is a long time ago. My best recollection was it had to do with scaffolding. BY MR. SPECTRE: Q When you say scaffolding, are you talking about the construction on your property or his? A Yes. Q So it was a discussion between neighbors about work that might affect one another? A I think my best recollection is he was planning on doing scaffolding, which would sort of be annoying to my property. So he… | ||
| 8912 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 33 | Page 34 | have another interaction. His schedule said other things. That was wrong. The only interaction I've had I'm here describing to you accurately what my best recollection, literally to my recollection, could be. Mr. Spectre. Did the topic of massages ever come up again besides that first interaction you had with Mr. Epstein? Secretary Lutnick. Never. [Lutnick Majority Exhibit No. 8 was marked for identification.] Mr. Emmer. At this time, I would like to introduce what will be marked as majority exh… | ||
| 8913 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 34 | Page 35 | Secretary Lutnick. Correct. The point was, if you emailed that email, it was to Matthew Gilbert. Everyone learned that he would respond to them. Sometimes he would do it on his own. Sometimes he would do it in mine. But it was always just to him. I didn't even read them. I didn't see them. Mr. Spectre. Thank you. BY MR. EMMER: Q And this relates to the blocking of the views of the park from your townhome. Is that right? A Yes. The Frick was -- is an architecturally important structure built arou… | ||
| 8914 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 35 | Page 36 | A No. Q Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein receive a massage from young women or girls? A No. Q During your interactions with Mr. Epstein, did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you? A No, other than that which he said he had the right kind of massage. Q Did you ever see or meet any young woman or girl at Mr. Epstein's office or residence? A No. Q Did you ever have any sexual contact with any young woman or girl in the presence of Epstein? A No. Q Did you ever receive any massag… | ||
| 8915 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 36 | Page 37 | that does not justify keeping these proceedings off camera. Committee Republicans have claimed that this investigation is being conducted in the interest of transparency for the public and for the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. To that end, the Committee has videotaped multiple prominent witnesses who have appeared for testimony in the Epstein investigation, and the majority has released those videos shortly after the testimony was complete. The Committee has videoed and released the tes… | ||
| 8916 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 37 | Page 38 | And with that, I will move to substantive questions. Good afternoon, Secretary Lutnick. As I said, my name is . And as you know, today's conversation will focus on your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. I would like to start with the interview that you gave to the New York Post in October of last year. I know it was discussed a little bit in the previous round. Some of these questions might be repetitive to some degree. I'll try to minimize that to the extent possible, but there is going to be … | ||
| 8917 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 38 | Page 39 | : Q We're going to go over it one by one as well. A That's all right. I'm just going to read it quickly. Q Of course. A Okay. Q Great. I'm going to break it up into pieces. The only thing I will do is skip the parts where the interviewer interrupted you with words like "right" or "interesting." Just starting at the outset, you were asked how well you knew Jeffrey Epstein, and you started by saying, quote, "All right. So we are in number 11, and he lives in number 9." So is it correct that you di… | ||
| 8918 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 39 | Page 40 | "Right." "So we build. We rebuild our house. We move in in 2005." And I'll stop there. So I heard you say in the previous round you bought your home, I think, in 1997. Is that correct? A That's correct. Q And did you know at the time that you purchased the home that the home had previously been owned by Jeffrey Epstein and Les Wexner? A I don't know. I knew I bought it from Charles de Gunzburg. So that I remember. I don't know if I knew anything else. Q Is it that you are not sure whether or not… | ||
| 8919 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 40 | Page 41 | A No. I bought my house from Charles de Gunzburg, and I do not recall knowing when I bought the house who owned it previously. Q Yes. So sitting here today, you could not be certain as to whether or not you knew at the time who the previous owners were, is what I hear you saying. A Well, I'm trying to be clear. I remember clearly I bought the house from Charles de Gunzburg. He was the owner of the house. I don't -- I can't remember as I sit here today, almost 30 years later, whether I ever knew … | ||
| 8920 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 41 | Page 42 | But then there have been a few statements that suggest, "No, I did not know that it was previously owned by Epstein." So I just want to pin down which of those it is. A I don't know and I don't think I ever knew that Jeffrey Epstein owned the house that I bought. Is that helpful? Q Yes. Is that new information for you here today? A That what? Q That Jeffrey Epstein previously owned your home? A Yes. Q Okay. A I don't know that to be true. Q Has it ever been suggested to you or have you ever hear… | ||
| 8921 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 42 | Page 43 | like that. So knock on the door. His assistant on like a Saturday says, 'Mr. Epstein, your neighbor, would like to invite you over for coffee.'" So I can cover the first part of that, which is that Mr. Epstein was arrested in 2006, but he did plead guilty to solicitation of a minor in 2008. A question for you is -- and I think you described it in some detail previously -- is it correct that Mr. Epstein's assistant did knock on your door on a Saturday morning because Mr. Epstein wanted to invite … | ||
| 8922 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 43 | Page 44 | A Oh, I don't know if it was that day. Q It might have been a later date? A Correct. Q Is it correct that Mr. Epstein did offer you a tour? A Yes. Q And is it correct that you and your wife did agree to the tour? A Yes. Q Prior to this interaction, did you have any knowledge of who Jeffrey Epstein was? A Not that I can think of now, no. Q I think in the interview you then said that he, meaning Epstein, has got a really big house. I think we all at this point understand that that is an accurate s… | ||
| 8923 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 44 | Page 45 | Q Okay. And then you said, quote, "So I asked very insightful, cutting questions. I say to him, 'Massage table in the middle of your house? How often do you have a massage?' And he says, 'Every day.' And then he, like, gets, like, weirdly close to me, and he says, 'And the right kind of massage.'" I'll stop there. Is that statement accurate to the best of your recollection? A Well, I'm being sarcastic when I say I asked very insightful, cutting questions. I'm just kidding. And it's generally rig… | ||
| 8924 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 45 | Page 46 | A Yes. Q Did Mr. Epstein have any particular reaction to you sort of abruptly excusing yourself? A Not that I recall. Q Did you give a particular reason for needing to excuse yourself? A I don't remember anything other than we decided to excuse ourselves. Q And then you said, quote, "And in the six or eight steps it takes to get from his house to my house, my wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again." I'll stop there. Is it true that before you g… | ||
| 8925 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 46 | Page 47 | room in the future, I will not be in that room"? Was it at that level? Or was that an embellishment or sort of extra language there? A Remember, it's a podcast 20 years later that I'm trying to make a point that I -- and I didn't, by the way. I avoided having a personal and professional relationship with him. I avoided him. So I think it was right. I think the point of the podcast is right. What I said was right. I avoided him. And I never put myself in a situation with him ever again personally… | ||
| 8926 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 47 | Page 48 | or even philanthropy." Is that statement true? A Yes. Q So is it your testimony that you were never physically in a room with Jeffrey Epstein after the day of the tour? A Again, this was differentiating me so that I would not put myself, Howard Lutnick, in a position to be with him, alone with him. So I was with my wife with him, as I've described earlier today, at a lunch on the island 7 years later, and I did listen to him tell me about scaffolding in his foyer. But I was not -- those were not… | ||
| 8927 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 48 | Page 49 | this is a discussion with my wife, right? It's an informal discussion with my wife as we walked from his home where he said something inappropriate. And we discussed that I would not put myself in a circumstance with him, and I would avoid him. And so I did. I avoided him. I was never, Howard Lutnick, I was never in the room with him socially, for business, or philanthropically, alone in a situation where I could be at all with a person who I found inappropriate. So that's correct. It's not lite… | ||
| 8928 | Howard Lutnick — House Oversight Committee 8 | 49 | Page 50 | statement to mean you alone. Is that right? A It's more than interpreted. I'm the one who said it. I'm telling you what I meant. I am telling you what I meant. And that's what I said, which is that -- and I've already described it. Q But is it right that you intended to convey -- as far as you can recall from the interview last year -- you intended to convey with the word "I" that you were speaking only about yourself individually, not in the context of anybody other than you and Epstein being i… |