Segments Record

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or even philanthropy." Is that statement true? A Yes. Q So is it your testimony that you were never physically in a room with Jeffrey Epstein after the day of the tour? A Again, this was differentiating me so that I would not put myself, Howard Lutnick, in a position to be with him, alone with him. So I was with my wife with him, as I've described earlier today, at a lunch on the island 7 years later, and I did listen to him tell me about scaffolding in his foyer. But I was not -- those were not social engagements with him by me, business engagements with him by me, or philanthropic engagements with him and me as a person. I think that is accurate. Q So I'm just focused on the single sentence, and I'll read it back. Quote, "So I was never in the room with him socially, for business, or even philanthropy." So is it your testimony that that sentence is, in a literal sense, accurate? A It is accurate as to what I meant, which is I, Howard Lutnick, as a man, would not be in a situation with him because I felt him gross and inappropriate and not having boundaries; that I would not put myself in a room with him socially, which I did not, professionally, in business, which I did not, and philanthropically, which I did not. I have described in detail the only two other times I saw him, and they were not social, they were not business, and they were not philanthropic for me, I. I was -- I had lunch with him with my wife and family, which I have described in detail, but that was not me putting myself with him, which is what I said and which is the point I tried to make. Q And so is it that you agree you were in the room with him, full stop, but you don't believe either of those instances you've described qualify as being social or for business or for philanthropy, and that's how the sentence ends up being accurate for you? A This is me talking. The point I made was that I, as a man, would not put myself -- and