Segments
where deposition_id = 6
122 records
| id ▼ | deposition_id | segment_index | speaker | start_seconds | end_seconds | text |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 8641 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 0 | Page 1 | COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. DEPOSITION OF: WILLIAM P. BARR Monday, August 18, 2025 Washington, D.C. The interview in the above matter was held in room 2335, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 10:03 a.m. Present: Representatives Comer, Subramanyam, and Crockett. | ||
| 8642 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 1 | Page 2 | Appearances: For the COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM: , DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY , GENERAL COUNSEL , COUNSEL, OVERSIGHT , SENIOR ADVISOR , RESEARCH ASSISTANT , DIGITAL DIRECTOR , PROFESSIONAL STAFF MEMBER , MINORITY STAFF DIRECTOR , MINORITY FELLOW , MINORITY COUNSEL , MINORITY SENIOR COUNSEL , MINORITY COUNSEL , MINORITY FELLOW , MINORITY DEPUTY CHIEF OVERSIGHT COUNSEL | ||
| 8643 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 2 | Page 3 | For THE WITNESS: ED O'CALLAGHAN Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLC 900 16th Street NW #500 Washington, D.C. 20006 | ||
| 8644 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 8 | Page 9 | Can the reporter please swear in the witness. The Reporter. Will you raise your right hand for me. Do you solemnly declare and affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? The Witness. Yes. Mr. Barr, do you have any more questions before we begin? The Witness. No. Thank you. My clock says 10:10. The majority hour will begin now. EXAMINATION BY : Q Very, very briefly, we want to go through your background and … | ||
| 8645 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 9 | Page 10 | Q Moving on to the topic at hand, just some preliminary questions, have you ever met Mr. Epstein? A Have I what? Q Have you ever met Jeffrey Epstein? A Not to my knowledge. Q I'll pause for a minute. Ms. Crockett, do you mind identifying yourself for the record? Ms. Crockett. Yes. Jasmine Crockett, Texas-30. BY : Q And, then, have you ever met Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell? A Not to my knowledge. Q In general, is the Attorney General aware of every Federal criminal investigation that's happening at any g… | ||
| 8646 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 10 | Page 11 | time as Attorney General in the first Trump administration. A Sure. Q Did you have any conversations about the Epstein case while you were Attorney General? A Any conversations? Q Yeah, just broadly. A Yes. Q Do you recall when the first one was? A I became -- at some point, and this was 6 years ago, but I became aware that the Southern District was conducting an investigation. I think it was a little bit before his arrest, but I can't be sure of that. It could've been around the time of his arres… | ||
| 8647 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 11 | Page 12 | sex with a minor, a trafficked minor. Q And facilitating -- A Or anyone who was trafficking. Q Yeah. A But certainly what the focus was on was illicit sexual activity with a minor. Q And then what would facilitating be of, I believe, Ms. Maxwell was -- A Helping -- helping conscript young girls into Epstein's network of young girls who primarily were involved in giving him massages and engaged in sexual activity with him. Q And then you said you don't -- correct me if I'm wrong -- don't really recal… | ||
| 8648 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 12 | Page 13 | attorney for the Southern District of New York? A Geoff Berman, yeah. Q Do you recall any conversations with anyone with the Southern District of Florida at that time? A I don't recall. Q And, then, do you recall any conversations with Mr. Alex Acosta at that time? A Not about -- not about this case. Q Not about Epstein? A Not about Epstein. Q Okay. He obviously served in the administration -- A Yes. Q -- with you, so in other cases. A Yes. Q I'm going to -- similar questions, different timeframe … | ||
| 8649 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 13 | Page 14 | bottom of everything. Q Thank you. I'm going to -- A I would say, she went -- she disappeared, and there was this embarrassing period where they couldn't locate her. And, you know, at some point, I became aware that they were prepared to indict her and that they couldn't find her. So -- but, aside from that general information, I don't recall anything specific about that. Q I believe they eventually found her in like a cabin in Vermont or something? A New Hampshire. Q New Hampshire. Do you recall … | ||
| 8650 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 14 | Page 15 | Q But you do -- A I really can't compare it because I can't really remember -- Q Yeah. A -- exactly what I saw. I remember -- what I remember about what I saw is that the resolution was good enough that I could see what the guards were up to -- the correctional officers were doing. I mean, not crystal clear, but I could tell that they were looking at computers and working on computers and so forth. So I remember that the resolution was pretty good, and it may have been -- it could've been an enhan… | ||
| 8651 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 15 | Page 16 | things, you know, I started reaching my conclusions. And this sort of came later in the process. Q Okay. A It wasn't the first thing I looked at. Q Yeah. I'll -- A I think it took some time of working to get whatever they were getting to me, so -- Q I'll try to cover as much as I can, but we'll start with the video. I'm going to go ahead and introduce what will be exhibit 3, just because I think it'll help in discussions. [Barr Majority Exhibit No. 3 was marked for identification.] BY : Q And it i… | ||
| 8652 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 16 | Page 17 | Mr. O'Callaghan. See, look at what is doing. That camera is positioned right here and pointed towards the common area. Mr. O'Callaghan. So, it's up here. The Witness. Okay. I'm glad you -- yeah, yeah. Mr. O'Callaghan. And that's his cell. The Witness. Yeah. Right. Mr. O'Callaghan. Okay. All right. I'm going to play 30ish seconds just so we can get our bearings on what the movings of the jail look like. [Video shown.] BY : Q So, just while this is playing, you see what appear to be corrections offi… | ||
| 8653 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 17 | Page 18 | officer from making a phone call back to his cell in L block. So you can see him kind of go out of frame and go up those stairs to L block. Mr. O'Callaghan. Again, , you're representing that that's Epstein walking through? Yes. And -- Mr. O'Callaghan. You can't really tell -- -- so is the DOJ, IG, and the FBI. The Witness. I'm not going to challenge it. BY : Q Okay. And -- that was going to be my next -- is that your recollection of that scene as well, that, around 7:49, Mr. Epstein went to his ce… | ||
| 8654 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 18 | Page 19 | death -- or surround him going back to his cell, the blind spot also includes this door on the kind of center of this schematic, which is an entrance into the Special Housing Unit. And just asking, based off your experience and everything that you reviewed, looking at this, looking at the video, this -- the only video that is publicly available, is it possible for someone to get up to Mr. Epstein's cell while evading that camera? A I don't believe so. Q You don't believe so? A No. Q Even though p… | ||
| 8655 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 19 | Page 20 | control. So no one would have the key for it. And it was my understanding that that would leave a record of it being opened. So there was no way to come in that door except going through central control -- having it remotely opened. And then, second, the second door -- Q I'm sorry, just the primary door is the door in the center of the schematic that appears open in the picture. Is that the primary one? Mr. O'Callaghan. He's saying this one. The Witness. In the -- the one up here? Yes. Mr. O'Cal… | ||
| 8656 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 20 | Page 21 | someone to come through there. But, otherwise, it was also my judgment that the video corroborated that because, number one, it showed the two officers who were in the SHU. The only ones in the SHU at the time did not leave their desk. So they didn't go to let anyone in. Q Uh-huh. A And, second, it was my judgment, from what I saw on the camera and what I looked at, I didn't think it was possible for someone to get up to the tier and open the door without being picked up in the camera, so -- Q Ope… | ||
| 8657 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 21 | Page 22 | Q Oh, you didn't review the command logs. Are you aware of the -- A I didn't personally review them. I was aware that they had judged that it was not possible for someone to come in. Q Are you aware if anyone reviewed whether or not an entrance or exit was logged? A I believe the Bureau was looking at that intensively, the whole issue of whether this could've been anything other than a suicide. Q The -- are you referring to the Bureau of Prisons or the FBI? A I'm sorry; the FBI. Q Thank you. A A… | ||
| 8658 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 22 | Page 23 | A It was Sunday morning. I was in my study at home, and I got a call from my chief of staff saying that -- that Epstein died from an apparent suicide. Q Do you recall about how close in time it was to the pronouncement of death? A I -- I don't recall. It was in the morning, I believe. Q And it's still your opinion today that Mr. Epstein died by suicide? A Absolutely. Q Before getting into kind of what the investigation looked like after that, what information was flowing to you, do you know, to th… | ||
| 8659 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 23 | Page 24 | Mr. Epstein's death? A I think it came virtually every day I found out more information. You know, I was obviously covering it very quickly and wanted to rule out anything other than suicide, and so pertinent information was flowing to me pretty consistently. Q And it was -- and -- A The FBI was conducting an investigation, and the Southern District was involved in that. And I -- the -- within an hour or minutes of finding out about it, I directed the IG to have people in New York go to the scene … | ||
| 8660 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 24 | Page 25 | Q Did you -- I asked this, but did you review like entry and exit logs for the SHU? A I may have. I saw some records. I can't remember what they were. Q Okay. The chief medical examiner at the time stated after examination that Epstein died by, I believe it was described as kneeling hanging, so not jumping off the top bunk but using leverage to kind of lean forward. Does that fit your recollection? A I remember discussion of a kneeling hanging, but I -- I can't remember what posture he was in at t… | ||
| 8661 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 25 | Page 26 | A Well, I heard about it pretty soon after it came out. Q And, at that point, it kind of confirmed to you that the medical examiner ruled it a suicide? A Yes. And the fact that there were -- I mean, I think, not only that ruling but the fact that there was no sign of any struggle. I mean, he was a fairly large guy, and the idea that people would go in there and hang him in that way with numerous nooses being tied and so forth without any sign of a scuffle was not plausible. Q Yeah. I think I rememb… | ||
| 8662 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 26 | Page 27 | A Uh-huh. Q -- take with that what you will. A Yes. Q But do you recall Dr. Baden being involved at the time? A I remember just reading news coverage -- well, he came in after, I believe, after the autopsy, reached his conclusions, and he offered another view of it. And I remember press reports to that effect. Q He -- his view, which is contrary to the medical examiner's, and, again, I will say that he is an expert medical witness not a medical examiner, but that Epstein had fractures to his laryn… | ||
| 8663 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 27 | Page 28 | within the prison. And all these people were in different groups -- you know, the people who were repairing the cameras, the people who, you know, were responsible for opening and closing the door, the people who were responsible for putting in a new cellmate, things like that. For all that to be coordinated, it would've required, I think, as I say, maybe two dozen people. Q Uh-huh. So kind of -- and I'm not -- I don't mean to be testifying, but, like, in summary, kind of between his state of min… | ||
| 8664 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 28 | Page 29 | A No. Q -- that it was a homicide? Do you recall -- A No, not that I was aware of. Q Do you recall anyone investigating it as a homicide that you were aware of? A No. I don't think anyone got to the point of feeling that it was murder. Q Going back to Dr. Baden just very briefly, I know that you said that you recalled -- generally, you recalled conversations regarding his contrary findings. Do you recall having any conversations about Mr. Epstein's broken larynx and hyoid bones outside of Dr. Bade… | ||
| 8665 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 29 | Page 30 | evidence regarding -- that you reviewed regarding his state of mind, Mr. Epstein's state of mind? A Well, you know, I was aware that, you know, he had tried suicide, which I viewed as an attempted suicide. The -- he had done his last will and testament right before. Q When did you become aware of that one? A Sometime during this period where I was absorbing information. I can't pinpoint it. But there was a period of time where things were being learned, and I was finding out about them, if they w… | ||
| 8666 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 30 | Page 31 | take him off suicide watch. He had already attempted suicide. And, for all the reasons I just stated, it was someone that had to be watched, and he was high -- very high profile, and he would be under pressure to identify coconspirators. So I think that was one. The fact that the checks, the 30-minute checks were not performed. And I would say that there was nothing apparently unusual about that. This wasn't like people getting together and saying, "Okay, tonight we're not going to perform the wat… | ||
| 8667 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 31 | Page 32 | Q Were the -- the IG report came out after your time as Attorney General in June of 2023? A Yes. Q The -- were you getting updates from the IG or just the FBI? A I think, my best recollection is that initially I did get some updates, you know, sort of orienting me to some of the big facts and factors. But, as -- but, you know, that -- that sort of dribbled away, and certainly, after I left the Department, I wasn't getting anything. But I don't -- I can't -- initially I got some information, and … | ||
| 8668 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 32 | Page 33 | day. I doubt I said every 3 hours. But, if I did say it, that may have been just on the first few days, like we need to know in real time because all these allegations and the internet was going crazy. Q Yeah. We just discussed some of the -- I'll describe them as kind of security failures at that time, more -- maybe caused by low staffing, low budget, whatever the cause was. There were a number of failures that occurred between August 9th and August 10th. We've discussed the -- Mr. Epstein's attem… | ||
| 8669 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 33 | Page 34 | A That he had attempted suicide? Q Uh-huh. A Yes. Q Did -- A Well, yes. Q The Attorney General wouldn't be notified every time an inmate in BOP custody attempts suicide? A Not for an attempt. Q We discussed him being put on suicide watch and kind of what that entailed, and you just mentioned where I was going next, that he was removed from watch after 24 hours, which I believe is the minimum amount of time that you're allowed to be on suicide watch? A I don't -- I can't remember exactly how long … | ||
| 8670 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 34 | Page 35 | and then be not put on suicide watch. So I was regaled about that, you know, the arguments and the process. Q Okay. And you recall -- do you recall people advocating for a longer suicide watch for him or -- A I don't recall the details, no. Q Okay. And then -- A I -- you know, I mean, Main Justice would not have been involved in that, because, you know, this was a pretrial -- MCC is pretrial. And, you know, generally, the way a pretrial suspect is handled is monitored by the U.S. Attorney's Office… | ||
| 8671 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 35 | Page 36 | Q Okay. Shifting to the security cameras, which we talked about a little bit, but I want to talk about the circumstances surrounding the cameras a little bit more, that there were 11 or so in or around the SHU entrance and exits, hallways. And we already discussed the one pointing straight down L block, and then we watched the footage from the one pointing into the common area. There was a DVR failure that resulted in these cameras working in real time but not recording. Does that -- do you reca… | ||
| 8672 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 36 | Page 37 | nonmalicious explanation for it. Q And, kind of generally, in your discussions with the FBI and others investigating this, did the lack of camera recordings have any negative impact on the investigation? A You know, I mean, it made the investigation harder, obviously, yeah. Q I mean, if the camera down L block had been working, it would've been an easier investigation? A Yeah. Now, it was working, and that's -- Q Yes. If it had been recording. A It wasn't in -- I'm not sure, but in -- my belief … | ||
| 8673 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 37 | Page 38 | Q And didn't find -- to your knowledge, didn't find anything malicious in the timing of his release? A No. Q And didn't find anything malicious in that the -- that MCC had not assigned Epstein a new roommate? A I think that was the judgment of the FBI after a period of time, and then that ultimately was the judgment of the IG as well. That's my recollection. Q What -- do you recall kind of what the indications were brought to you that it was just a mistake to not assign him a roommate? A I can't re… | ||
| 8674 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 38 | Page 39 | Q Did you ever speak to the -- any of the inmates that were around Mr. Epstein at the time? A No. Q Did you ever speak to any of his roommates? A No. But I believe they were interviewed and was told the results. | ||
| 8675 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 39 | Page 40 | [11:02 a.m.] BY : Q I have nine minutes left, so I'm going to do the unmonitored phone call, and then we'll go off the record for this round. You had mentioned earlier and said that the IG, in its review, that Mr. Epstein made an unmonitored phone call the evening prior to being brought back to his cell before he was -- before his death on the 10th. Do you recall being made aware of that after the fact? A After his suicide? Q Uh-huh. A Yes. Q And were you briefed regarding what happened with the … | ||
| 8676 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 40 | Page 41 | unmonitored call unless there was a reason, like, "My lawyer is going to" -- "I'm talking to my lawyer." Q And in addition to being monitored by a corrections officer, these calls are usually recorded? A Yes. Q Is that correct? A Yes. Q Was this call recorded? A I don't -- no, not that I'm aware of. Q The IG did a review, and I believe the Southern District of New York eventually did as well, where individual one, the recipient of the call, or her attorney, gave a proffer to the Southern District o… | ||
| 8677 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 41 | Page 42 | A I believe they did. That's my best recollection. Q Do you recall who it was? A No. Q I'll just ask about one person. Do you recall if it was Ghislaine Maxwell? A It was not. It was not her. Q It was not her? A No. That's a good spot. We can go off the record. [Recess.] Mr. O'Callaghan. We're on the record? We're on the record. Mr. O'Callaghan. So just before we start with your questions, Attorney General Barr just wanted to clarify two points from the prior testimony. It makes sense to do it no… | ||
| 8678 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 42 | Page 43 | portion of Mr. Epstein's cell on the schematic. The Witness. The other thing is that I don't have a specific recollection of the exact time I found out about being taken off suicide watch, but my best recollection was it was after his suicide. Mr. O'Callaghan. Those are the two points. Thank you. EXAMINATION BY : Q Mr. Barr, good morning. I am going to proceed chronologically, and in doing so, I'm going to cover some of the topics that my majority colleagues did in a previous round, not to make yo… | ||
| 8679 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 43 | Page 44 | Attorney's Office in September -- September 2007. Among other things, that agreement bound the United States not to, quote, "institute any criminal charges against any potential coconspirators of Epstein," unquote. Are you familiar with that agreement? Mr. O'Callaghan. So, hold on. Excuse me. Attorney General Barr was under subpoena, and the scope of the cover letter was about the investigation by the Department of Justice into Epstein and Maxwell while he was Attorney General. You're asking about… | ||
| 8680 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 44 | Page 45 | Q The second time. During either of your tenures as Attorney General, have you ever seen a comparable provision that had the same effect, again -- A During the time I was Attorney General, I don't recall seeing a comparable provision. I think the thing that I didn't like about it was that it took away from the victims their allocution rights, and I thought that that was pretty aggressive, and I thought it was vulnerable. So that's just my own thinking when I saw it. Q I appreciate that. Just to a… | ||
| 8681 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 45 | Page 46 | about investigations that DOJ was handling? A Well, it depends what the investigation was about. On Epstein, I only remember two conversations I had with the President. Q So could you tell us about those two conversations? A One was when I heard about the suicide, I called him up and said, "You better brace for this," and I told him words to that effect, and I told him about it and told him we were going to be investigating it very vigorously. And the second one, I can't say for sure whether it h… | ||
| 8682 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 46 | Page 47 | Federal custody?" And the last everyone knew, he was being carefully watched precisely for that reason. And I think I conveyed to him that it was appalling and that we were going to investigate it vigorously and I -- and he had the same reaction I did, which is this is going to certainly generate a lot of conspiracy theories. These are not his exact words, but that's what I remember about the conversation being effectively -- maybe words to the effect, yeah. Q Did President Trump say anything else… | ||
| 8683 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 47 | Page 48 | in the DOJ, and I did not recuse myself. Q Did not recuse yourself? A Yes. Q And this is the Florida investigation? A No. It was the -- Q The Southern District of New York investigation? A That's the only thing that I was aware of going on when I was there. Q Okay. So to clarify, did you have any involvement at all in DOJ's review of the Florida investigation that took place during your second tenure? A I don't recall playing a role in the review of that. In terms of whether it was a proper? I d… | ||
| 8684 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 48 | Page 49 | of publicity around the fact that he might be pushed out of the administration. I may have expressed commiseration with him that he was facing that kind of public challenge, but I didn't discuss the investigation. Q What was your understanding of the reason that he was pushed out of the administration? A I don't know. I don't -- I think he -- I think he resigned. I think he resigned, so he -- my understanding was he resigned so he didn't -- so this didn't continue -- this issue didn't continue t… | ||
| 8685 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 49 | Page 50 | Q Mr. Acosta reportedly has stated that he was told that Jeffrey Epstein, quote, "belongs to intelligence and to leave it alone," unquote. Are you aware of Mr. Acosta saying that? A No. Other than what's ever been reported in articles over the years. Q Do you have any knowledge of Mr. Epstein having any ties to any intelligence agency? A No. Q Or of Mr. Acosta being told -- A I don't know about any ties. I have no reason to believe he was working for the CIA or any intelligence agency, and I'm du… | ||
| 8686 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 50 | Page 51 | Q I understand -- you mentioned earlier that you -- a determination was made that you would not recuse yourself from the SDNY investigation. And just to make sure my understanding is clear, was that based on input from the Ethics Office at DOJ? A That's my recollection, yeah. Q Okay. And do you recall the rationale for concluding that your continued involvement was consistent with the ethics regs? A Because I really didn't have a connection. I wasn't involved in the first investigation. Q There has… | ||
| 8687 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 51 | Page 52 | report to my attention. Q What was the extent during the SDNY investigation of your interaction with FBI agents? A During the investigation of it? Q Yes. The Epstein investigation. A I would say the agents up in New York, but people at headquarters, after the suicide, I told the headquarters to make sure that they flooded the zone. That is, that they provided the investigative office, which was the New York FBI office, all the resources necessary and made sure that a Federal investigation was being d… | ||
| 8688 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 52 | Page 53 | at the regular meetings that were held at Main Justice. Were you briefed by U.S. Attorney Berman as well? A You know, I think I probably had a conversation with Berman, a general conversation. But I think, to the extent he communicated or his people communicated, it would have been more to the deputy's office, and then I would have been told about it. Q When did your conversation with Mr. Berman take place? A You know, I can't say for sure there was. I think -- all I know is that I became aware of… | ||
| 8689 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 53 | Page 54 | A I think I was told what they were. I don't recall how deep the conversation was. Q Was there ever any disagreement between you and SDNY over who to charge or what charges to bring? A I don't remember one. Q Any -- A You mean the first time around? Q The -- A The initial indictment against Epstein in July? Mr. O'Callaghan. Maybe a time frame would help. The Witness. July. Mr. O'Callaghan. 2019? Are we talking 2019? Yes, yes. The Witness. Okay. Thanks. BY : Q To your knowledge, did anyone else at… | ||
| 8690 | William Barr — House Oversight Committee 6 | 54 | Page 55 | Q -- with respect to the investigation? A No. Q To your knowledge, did anyone else at DOJ discuss the SDNY investigation with anyone in the White House? A Not to my knowledge. Q The FBI's investigation, did that continue post-indictment? A The FBI's investigation of the suicide? Q The FBI's investigation into Mr. Epstein's crimes. A My understanding is that the investigation was going forward because they were at that stage looking for people who were complicit in the trafficking, either by facili… |