Segments
where deposition_id = 13
48 records
| id ▼ | deposition_id | segment_index | speaker | start_seconds | end_seconds | text |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 9587 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 0 | Page 1 | COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. INTERVIEW OF: LEON BLACK Friday, June 26, 2026 Washington, D.C. The interview in the above matter was held in room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 10:00 a.m. Present: Representatives Comer, Garcia, Stansbury, Subramanyam, Walkinshaw, Ansari, Min,and Khanna. | ||
| 9588 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 1 | Page 2 | Appearances: For the COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM: DANIEL ASHWORTH, GENERAL COUNSEL STACY BAKER, DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY BRITTANY BRIGNAC, SENIOR COUNSEL HANNAH CATHEY, PROFESSIONAL STAFF MEMBER JESSICA COLLINS, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR JACK EMMER, CHIEF COUNSEL FOR INVESTIGATIONS EMILY FEYERABEND, COUNSEL ETHAN GOLDMAN, INTERN BILLY GRANT, DEPUTY CHIEF COUNSEL FOR INVESTIGATIONS NICHOLAS LANGMAN, UNDERGRADUATE FELLOW MARK MARIN, STAFF DIRECTOR ALEXANDER MCKENNA, INTERN… | ||
| 9589 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 2 | Page 3 | For LEON BLACK: Susan Estrich Anya Goldin Estrich Goldin | ||
| 9590 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 3 | Page 4 | Aaron Cutler Ari Fridman Peter Spivack David Sharfstein Hogan Lovells Whit Clay Longacre Square Partners | ||
| 9591 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 4 | Page 5 | Ms. Brignac. This is a transcribed interview of Mr. Leon Black conducted by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform under the authority granted to it pursuant to House Rule X. Accordingly, House Rule X grants the Committee broad jurisdiction for the Committee to conduct investigations of any matter at any time. This interview was requested by Chairman James Comer as part of the Committee's investigation into the circumstances and subsequent investigations into the crimes of Jeffre… | ||
| 9592 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 5 | Page 6 | Mr. Cutler. Aaron Cutler representing Mr. Black from Hogan Lovells. Mr. Spivack. And Peter Spivack representing Mr. Black. Ms. Brignac. For the record, starting with the majority staff, can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title, and affiliation? Mr. Grant. Billy Grant, deputy chief counsel for investigations for Chairman Comer. Mr. Emmer. Jack Emmer, chief counsel for investigations for Chairman Comer. Mr. Ashworth. Daniel Ashworth, general counsel for C… | ||
| 9593 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 6 | Page 7 | , deputy comms director, Ranking Member Garcia. , staff member, Ranking Member Garcia. , research assistant, Ranking Member Garcia. , research analyst, Ranking Member Garcia. Ms. Brignac. And we have majority members present. Can the Chairman please introduce himself for the record? Chairman Comer. James Comer, Chairman, Kentucky-1. Ms. Brignac. And can all other counsels for the witness please introduce themselves for the record? Mr. Sharfstein. David Sharfstein on behalf of Leon Black, Hogan L… | ||
| 9594 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 7 | Page 8 | everything you say to make a written record of this interview. For the record to be clear, please wait until the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you begin your answer, and the staffer will wait until you finish your response before proceeding to the next question. Further, to ensure the court reporter can properly record this interview, please speak clearly, concisely, and slowly. Also, the court reporter cannot record nonverbal answers, such as nodding or shaking your head… | ||
| 9595 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 8 | Page 9 | pursuant to Title 18 of the United States Code Section 1001, to answer questions from Congress truthfully. This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in this interview. Do you understand? Mr. Black. I do. Ms. Brignac. If at any time you knowingly make false statements, you could be subject to criminal prosecution. Do you understand? Mr. Black. I do. Ms. Brignac. This includes both knowingly providing false testimony but also stating that you do not recall or remember something w… | ||
| 9596 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 9 | Page 10 | Pursuant to that, Committee Rule 16(c)(1) states: "For the Chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements, witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance." Do you understand? Mr. Black. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that last clause? Ms. Brignac. Yes. 16(c)(1) states: "For the Chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements, witnes… | ||
| 9597 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 10 | Page 11 | Ms. Brignac. We will do our best to accommodate that. Thank you. Mr. Black. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Grant. And we've had a couple of additional members join us. Could they please introduce themselves for the record? Ms. Stansbury. Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico-1. Mr. Min. Dave Min, California. Mr. Grant. Thank you. Ms. Brignac. I understand, Mr. Black, you have an opening statement that you would like to read into the record. You can do so now. Mr. Black. Thank you very much. Chairman Comer, Rankin… | ||
| 9598 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 11 | Page 12 | a Nobel Prize winner, Leon Botstein, who is head of Bard College, and numerous eminent scientists, as well as with many major financial institutions. I also knew him to possess a remarkable acumen about tax, insurance, and trust and estate matters. I paid Epstein for his bona fide advice on these matters in addition to helping to manage and improve the operation of my nascent family office. With the benefit of hindsight, I now know -- as does the world -- that Epstein was engaged in horrific, so… | ||
| 9599 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 12 | Page 13 | I am a self-made businessman who has experienced much good fortune, and I have personally paid billions of dollars in taxes on the Federal, State, and local level. When the first news accounts called out millions I had paid to Epstein, I was the chairman and CEO of Apollo Global Management, which I had founded and built for 30 years. I am proud of the work that I did with many others at Apollo to invest and support companies in America and the world. I helped to create numerous businesses that a… | ||
| 9600 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 13 | Page 14 | straightforward. How much did I pay Epstein? What did Epstein do on my behalf? Did he do work for Apollo at my behest? Did I know about the behavior that led to Epstein's arrest in 2019? The Dechert law firm issued a report in January 2021 that answered each of these questions. That report was filed by Apollo as a public securities disclosure. The fact of the matter is that I am the only person in Epstein's orbit -- including all the individuals who have been called to appear before this Committ… | ||
| 9601 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 14 | Page 15 | lawyers I consulted with had been able to solve. It was a problem that would have destroyed enormous value for my family and also in Apollo, the company I had founded. Epstein also told me that the fees I was paying him were tax-deductible 60-cent dollars, which I only learned years later was not true, i.e. what I believed to be $95 million of net fees paid to him over 5 years was actually $158 million. But at the time I was led to believe by Epstein that I was paying 60-cent dollars. That assur… | ||
| 9602 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 15 | Page 16 | burning conspiracies and falsities that are at the core of speculation about Epstein. I understand that, and I understand why people are upset, but I don't understand why people -- including members of this Committee -- would accept baseless speculation about me with regard to the facts and spin such ugly and vicious narratives that are demonstrably false. I have been very publicly sued three times by a single law firm by three women claiming ties to Epstein and making horrific allegations about… | ||
| 9603 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 16 | Page 17 | evidence. The plaintiff in that case had testified under oath -- incredibly -- that she gave birth to four of Epstein's children, three of whom were kidnapped at birth. She fabricated a journal where she made fantastical claims that she was raped by 50 different men when she was in high school, including a former President and multiple Cabinet members. She claimed to be a 16-year-old autistic woman with Mosaic Down syndrome. Meanwhile, the law firm in question was expressly warned before filing … | ||
| 9604 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 17 | Page 18 | to my wife, children, and family, and I will not speak about the personal lives of adult women who have not chosen and do not deserve to be connected by me or anyone else to Epstein. This is an opportunity for me and for my family to move forward with the productive and beneficial work that should be consuming us -- our commitment to advance worthy causes for society. We have made more than a half a billion dollars in philanthropic gifts in several key areas, including funding health research, h… | ||
| 9605 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 18 | Page 19 | Mr. Subramanyam. Congressman Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia's 10th Congressional District. Mr. Grant. Thank you. Ms. Brignac. The time reads 10:27 a.m., and the majority's time will start now. EXAMINATION BY MS. BRIGNAC: Q Mr. Black, let's begin by discussing your background. Where were you born? A New York City. Q What year were you born? A 1951. Q What is your marital status? A I've been married for 45 -- 44 years as of last week. Q And who is your wife? A My wife is Debra Black. Q And you have c… | ||
| 9606 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 19 | Page 20 | When Drexel collapsed in early '90, I founded Apollo Global Management and was the chairman and CEO there for almost 31 years. I left. I retired there 5 years ago, basically, and have been running our family office called Elysium. Q When did you begin work with Elysium? A Well, I started Elysium while I was still at Apollo. But when I retired from Apollo, it kind of amped up. Q What year did you begin your work with Elysium? A I don't remember the specific year, but that family office was in exi… | ||
| 9607 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 20 | Page 21 | Q What was the reason for him bringing Mr. Epstein to the lunch? A I think he thought I would find him an interesting person. Q Who else was present? A No one. Q What was discussed at the lunch? A I don't remember. This was 30 years ago. It was the first meeting or introduction to a person. I don't recall at all what was discussed. Q Was the purpose of the lunch to meet Mr. Epstein? A Not to my knowledge. I have no idea. Q Do you recall if it was a friendly lunch or the nature of the topics that… | ||
| 9608 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 21 | Page 22 | A No, not that I can recall. He was an absolutely new person that a friend of mine said he was friends with and was interesting, period. Q Did you do any background research before meeting him? A I didn't know I was going to meet him, as I told you, so how could I have done background research? Q What were your first impressions of him? A Smart. Irreverent. That's all. Q What did you understand his job to be? A I didn't understand his job to be. I understood that he was somebody that Skip was in… | ||
| 9609 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 22 | Page 23 | actually learn about Mr. Epstein and his past and what he did for a living? Did that take a couple of years? Did it take a few months? When would that have -- ballpark range? Mr. Black. I don't remember. I learned that he had been a math teacher. I learned -- at Dalton School. I learned that he was very friendly with Ace Greenberg and Jimmy Cayne, who were the chairs and president of Bear Stearns, and that he had worked at Bear Stearns and therefore he had some financial sophistication. I learne… | ||
| 9610 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 23 | Page 24 | worked for Les Wexner at The Limited for many years. I knew later that he also worked for the Rothschild family, but I don't think I knew that earlier on when you're asking about. He basically said he had done tax work and estate planning work for half a dozen or so families but was not at liberty to tell me other than Wexner. Q And you listed quite a lot of information about him. How did you come to learn all of that information after meeting him at that lunch? A I think a lot of it from him. A… | ||
| 9611 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 24 | Page 25 | This was somebody who had an interesting Rolodex in many different areas, whether it be science, whether it be academia, whether it be politics, government, business. So when you say how did I learn, I learned oftentimes by being there at meetings, whether it was with Kathy Ruemmler, whether it was with Steve Bannon, whether it was with Larry Summers. Q It sounds like you admired him, Mr. Black. A I said I don't want to look like I was -- I'm defending him. I'm not, given with hindsight what we … | ||
| 9612 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 25 | Page 26 | Q And, back at the lunch, did you exchange contact information there? A Which lunch? Q The lunch where you met Mr. Epstein. Did you exchange contact information? A I don't know if it was exchanged. I certainly knew that if I wanted to get in touch with him, I could through Skip. So I have no idea whether we exchanged information. I just don't have memory of that. Q What was the typical method of your communication with him throughout the years? Was it through associates of yours? Was it directly… | ||
| 9613 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 26 | Page 27 | services, it became a big PR event. And since Apollo dealt with many investors -- including investors from public pension funds, State pension funds, sovereign accounts -- I felt that we ought to, as a firm, and that me, as a person -- the chairman and CEO of the firm -- should address the questions that were brought up through that story. So I went to the independent committee on the board, the board members, and requested that they go out and retain an independent law firm to examine my relati… | ||
| 9614 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 27 | Page 28 | A Didn't I just do that when you asked me what was the Dechert report? Q Excuse me. Mr. Cutler. He did. He answered the question. Ms. Brignac. Thank you. Thank you. Just wanted to make a note. Mr. Black. Okay. BY MS. BRIGNAC: Q You mentioned an independent committee. Who were the members of this Conflicts Committee? A One was Buzzy Krongard, who had been either the -- he was the head of a bank in Baltimore, had been on the board for many years, and he was either the number two or number three at… | ||
| 9615 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 28 | Page 29 | A No, I was not. Q You mentioned Andy -- Andrew Levander led the investigation. Is that correct? A Yes. Q How did you meet Mr. Levander? A I didn't really know Mr. Levander. He led -- he interviewed me, I know, as part of that investigation. Q Are you aware that Mr. Levander is reported to have known Mr. Epstein when he was an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York in the 1980s? A No. Q Were you aware of any relationship between Mr. Levander and Mr. Epstein? A No. Q Upon he… | ||
| 9616 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 29 | Page 30 | Mr. Epstein -- to conduct your investigation of your ties with Mr. Epstein? A I find it impossible to answer your question without knowing the nature of that relationship. Q Do you find the fact that they had a relationship concerning? A No, I don't. I don't. If they were good friends, then it would be concerning. If he had investigated Epstein for something prior years before, then I don't find it concerning. But you need to -- I mean, it's -- it's difficult to answer that question without know… | ||
| 9617 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 30 | Page 31 | many fields. And as I said, if you want to call that social, I guess that would be social. When he called and said, "Would you like to meet this interesting person?" or during U.N. Week where dozens of people from all over the world would come to his townhouse and say, "Would you like to join us? You'll find these people interesting," I did. So, from that point of view, I guess you could say I socialized because I met scientists through him. I met people involved in government through him and bu… | ||
| 9618 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 31 | Page 32 | A Because I thought he was really smart in areas having to do with trusts and foundations and charitable work. Q And this was only a year or two after having met him, correct? A It was a couple years, yeah. Exactly. Q And this appointment caused you to confide personal details about your financial matters and your family with Mr. Epstein, correct? A Yes. Q Did anyone push back on this appointment? A Not that I can recall. Q And how long had -- how long did he serve on the Black Family Foundation… | ||
| 9619 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 32 | Page 33 | didn't think that that was the family foundation appropriate. Q So then 2007, we've covered about a decade of dealings between you and Mr. Epstein. How frequently over that decade did you interact with him? A It's hard to say. But my home was two blocks from his townhouse. Sometimes we would have breakfast together, and sometimes I'd go over, if he had interesting people for drinks, at 5:00 or 6:00 for an hour or an hour and a half. Maybe -- I don't know -- once a month, once every 3 weeks, some… | ||
| 9620 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 33 | Page 34 | [11:00 a.m.] BY MS. BRIGNAC: Q And we can agree you developed a friendship over these years. Yes? A Friendship is an amorphous term. This is somebody who knew intimately the goings on in my family tax and estate planning entities. It's also something where, as I mentioned, I'd go over and meet his friends. I know there are emails where he claims that we're best friends. We were never best friends. Was I friendly with him from the point of view of enjoying his Rolodex? Yes. Did I think he was ver… | ||
| 9621 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 34 | Page 35 | A Nope, but she said that she was putting together a book by others and would I contribute. So I knew there were others, but I didn't know who they were. Q Your submission appears to be a poem of sorts. Yes? A A bad poem, yes. Q In the letter, you refer to Mr. Epstein as a VFPC, which means Vanity Fair Poster Child. What does that mean? A It means, I believe -- I don't fully recall -- but I think there had been a Vanity Fair article about him. That's all. Q What was that Vanity Fair article abou… | ||
| 9622 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 35 | Page 36 | of good-looking women, and he was a bachelor. Yeah. Q How did you know he surrounded himself with good-looking women? A Well, his staff were mostly good-looking women, and his pilot was a 6-foot blond. I mean, it was a little bit out of like a James Bond movie. His plane I think I remember being black, and his pilot was a 6-foot blond with her hair down to her waist. He was eccentric. Q Who was this blond pilot? A I don't really know her. Q Have you since learned that her name was ? A Yes. Q Did… | ||
| 9623 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 36 | Page 37 | to the United States at the age of 15 by Mr. Epstein? A No, I didn't know. Q Was it possible that was underage? A I don't believe so. I only met her when she was his pilot. I doubt whether she was an underage pilot. Q Did you ever see her at 301 East 66th Street? A No. Q Further in the poem, you state "Alhambra East jamboree." What does that refer to? A As I said, Epstein was quite eccentric and a little crazy with his architectural plans for his island, which he sometimes shared with me, and I … | ||
| 9624 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 37 | Page 38 | Q Did you consider Mr. Epstein to be a dear friend? A No. I considered him to be what I've just described. I considered him to be somebody that I had known for a long time, enjoyed his entourage of people in a lot of different fields. I appreciated the work he had done with my family office, and I was in the spirit of what was asked of me, which was a festive occasion for the 50th birthday of a confirmed bachelor, and that was the spirit that I wrote this in. No, I told you before I didn't consi… | ||
| 9625 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 38 | Page 39 | Q Have you ever engaged in sexual conduct of any kind with ? A I had an affair with her on and off for 6 years, an extramarital consensual adult affair with her. Q It was a sexual affair, correct? A It's already -- it's public knowledge. Q Did you have sexual conduct with ? A Yes. Q Did you support financially over the course of this affair? A Yes. Q Did you ever ask to sign a nondisclosure agreement? A I think on the subject of NDAs I'm going to refer to my counsel. Ms. Estrich. We're not going… | ||
| 9626 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 39 | Page 40 | Mr. Ashworth. But it's your position that that confidentiality prevents him from even discussing the existence of an NDA? Ms. Estrich. That is what every NDA I've ever seen in my career requires. Mr. Ashworth. I think we would disagree with that. Ms. Estrich. But the terms of the settlement agreement, if there is one, the existence of any such agreement. We're not even allowed when you have an NDA, to talk about the existence of an agreement in the absence of process and judicial review and the … | ||
| 9627 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 40 | Page 41 | intern, Ranking Member Garcia. , deputy chief counsel. Mr. Grant. Thank you all. Mr. Black. If I could, I will like to go back and respond to your last question. BY MS. BRIGNAC: Q Yes. Thank you. And I'm going to repeat the question so the record's clear. Did you ever ask to sign a nondisclosure agreement? A Yeah. When I said I wanted to come back, I came here voluntarily to be cooperative with this committee, and to the extent I'm able to do that, I will. So on the three women that were the sub… | ||
| 9628 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 41 | Page 42 | A He was not involved in the negotiation. He was somebody that I told I was being blackmailed and extorted to, as well as to my lawyers at Paul, Weiss. Q $21.7 million seems like an awful lot for an extramarital affair. What was it precisely you did not wish for her to disclose? A That we were having an affair. I had a wife and children and was the chair of a public company. I agree with you it was a lot of money. It was a lot less than the $100 million that she started with. And I viewed it as … | ||
| 9629 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 42 | Page 43 | A Again, I'm happy to talk about the firm -- or the woman. This is a woman I never met. Q What were the terms of the NDA with ? A Again, I'm not sure I'm going to talk about an NDA, but I am going to say I never met her. Mr. Ashworth. Mr. Black, you stated just a moment ago that you would be willing to talk about the NDAs rela- -- these NDAs related to these cases. Now you're stating that you -- Mr. Black. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Mr. Ashworth. Now you're stating that you are n… | ||
| 9630 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 44 | Page 45 | Q Yes. In a 2024 interview with Puck. "Leon Black From the Ashes." Are NDAs very common occurrences among your social circles? A Do I know of many men who have signed NDAs? Yes, I do. And I think that there are many men and women who have had affairs and NDAs were arranged and they were meant to be kept confidential by both sides, the desire of both sides, and -- yeah. Q How many NDAs are you a party to? Ms. Estrich. Again, that's a question that if there are any NDAs we can't answer, because th… | ||
| 9631 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 45 | Page 46 | A No, he never told me that. I have no idea. Q You confirmed that NDAs are very common occurrences among your social circles. Who has NDAs that you're aware of? A I'm not here to talk about who has NDAs. Q Are you refusing to answer the question? A I'm refusing to answer that question, absolutely. Q Are you aware of any other NDAs with women who are affiliated with Mr. Epstein? A No. Mr. Ashworth. Mr. Black, thank you again for appearing here today. My name is Daniel Ashworth. I'm the general co… | ||
| 9632 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 46 | Page 47 | I am deeply disappointed in the lack of professionalism displayed by the committee today. We engaged for months with the committee's majority staff in an effort to facilitate a fair, voluntary transcribed interview. Unfortunately, that good faith was met with premeditated political misdirection by the committee which served Mr. Black with subpoenas in an unprecedented manner after less than an hour of questioning and before they even asked a single question about his payments to Epstein. Mr. Bla… | ||
| 9633 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 47 | Page 48 | make a statement. Thank you. , senior counsel for Ranking Member Garcia. I have two statements for the record. First, Ranking Member Garcia, Representative Khanna, and Representative Walkinshaw were all present during the last round but did not have the opportunity to introduce themselves. Second, the minority had serious questions for Mr. Black about his knowledge of and involvement in Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking operation. Specifically, Democrats had questions about the vast amount of mo… | ||
| 9634 | Leon Black — House Oversight Committee 13 | 48 | Page 49 | Certificate of Deponent/Interviewee I have read the foregoing ____ pages, which contain the correct transcript of the answers made by me to the questions therein recorded. _____________________________ Witness Name _____________________________ Date |