From: jeffrey E. <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 8:24 PM To: Joscha Bach Subject: Re: i see it as a complex system agents are buildi=g many things. dependent on the local condition. some take off=as useful in other parts of the system, monkeys using to=ls? I think the term intelligence is too vague.. a crab using=a lure to catch its prey. is a bio inspired prosthetic. =C24o it arguaabley evolved. but cant be sur=. On M=n, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Joscha Bach . >=/span> wrote: So you don't think that practical intelligence is th= ability to build arbitrary prosthetics? I agree =hat humans share an important similarity with cells, i.e. they have mechan=sms that suppress individual competition when it conflicts too much with g=oup selection. Without such mechanisms, group selection fails, because wit=in each group, defectors have a local advantage. =he simplest mechanism to enforce cooperation is reputation, but it works o=ly when others are looking, and manage to keep tallies. To do better than =hat, evolution has to breed a virtual next level regulator into the indivi=ual, which may be your missing "top down for humans". A syste= of norms and taboos, for instance a religion or ideology that people pick=up from their environment. Individuals can decide= but in social contexts, the utility of decisions is given by how well we =nderstand the constraints under which we operate. </=iv> Am Mar 6, 2017 um 10:50 AM schr=eb jeffrey E. <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]»: no, i disagree = the spaceship is only an advanced prostthetic.. . not =nteresting at all. . interesting is we have no idea what the top do=n for humans is. . collective . group behavior, I dont=see any differnce between humans and cells , just a diff=rent layer of the same. . regulatory systems. action s =eedbacks and " learning " all with no goal . Q=A0the goals are illusions. . that the indiv thinks they decide. lik= the soldier ant that is